What is your opinion on the political climate in Canada with regards to immigration and racism? I am asking because as this point I am kind of apprehensive of trading an American right wing politician for a Canadian right wing politician. American right wing politicians are openly anti-immigrant and kind of racists.A major part of the country (including former immigrants ) support their views.Their racism trickles down to regular people and that results in my kid getting potentially left out or bullied. Does such a right wing exist in Canada? From what I read online, politicians in Canada seem to be liberal? I just wanted to hear from people living in Canada.
I’m really curious to know of specific instances of how your kid has been excluded and bullied due to racism in America.
It’s also not clear as to what you mean by trading politicians in two countries, neither of which you’re a citizen.
The textbook definition of Racism is the belief that one is superior to another primarily on the basis of ones race. Is this your definition of Racism or is your definition more broad? i.e. anything that you don’t like or makes you uncomfortable is that racist?
Canadian right wing politicians are not as conservative in immigration as their American counter parts but racism exists equally in Canada. I never had to deal with any aggressive racism in my life but there are some ignorable instances in US. Those things will exist in Canada as well. As Indian you will never face any direct racism but passive instances will be there.
There will always be people in the world who don’t hold the same view as us. That’s totally fine as long as we can agree to disagree and each go about minding our own business. Disagreement does not have to mean extremism. This is something we need to acknowledge in any country we live in.
I’ve faced maybe one or two minor sketchy interactions (people giving me the cold shoulder, or being rude) - which may not may not be attributed to the race. Every negative interaction I’ve had has been easily countered with a dismissive shrug and quickly ejected from my mind - and shadowed by a hundred positive ones. This is both in the US (before and during the Trump years) and in Canada.
Your kid is very lucky to have a caring parent like you! Definitely do you research make sure you find a good school and home environment for your child, but do not judge an entire country or region based on what you hear in the sensationalized new media or the constant barrage of opinions from social media.
Yes, there is ugliness in the world but there is far more beauty out there. More importantly, our time and attention is better save for spending time with our loved ones and building a life with them - rather than worrying about what strangers think of us.
There is an interesting saying in Canadian politics, though I’m yet to fully understand its accuracy, and I paraphrase, “Democrats in the US are to the right of Conservatives of Canada”.
That being said, does right wing fanaticism exists in Canada? Hell yeah. The Proud Boys movement started in Canada, the PPC of Maxime Bernier did aim to win seats in the last election. But compared to the US, their voices are rarely given a podium in mainstream society.
Unlike what most newly Canadian YouTubers portray, Canada is not an Utopia, but Canada sure as hell does more than most countries to improve itself regularly. Having said that, day to day negative experiences might be just a random person’s mindset when they interact with you. So far in 5 months I have had just one uncomfortable cold shoulder which frankly I didn’t care for much because I know I live in a society where this behaviour is neither encouraged by politicians nor acceptable in general.
Compared to this, the US won’t fix racism overnight just coz Joe Biden got 4 million more votes in the right places compared to Trump. Trump still got 70 million votes and in the process got his henchmen and QANON believers to state and federal Senates. Compare that to Canada, Maxime Bernier is yet to win a seat in the HoC even after running twice.
Example of instances A kid ( around 5 yrs old)in our neighborhood said to my kid (5 years old)…“My mom told me I can’t invite you to my house because you speak Spanish”.(My kid was playing with them and was speaking in fluent english with them, but only speaks in our native language( which isn’t Spanish) with us. …second instance was…"why did you come from Mexico.? "(May be they thought we were from Mexico).These are not serious instances and don’t conform to the text book definition of racism…But they definitely are symptoms of some sort of prejudice.I was just surprised to hear this from 5 to 6 year old kids and wondered what could be the source of such conversations amongs kindergarteners. The worst I heard at a similar age was “katti”( means I don’t want to be your friend )
Trading politicians:I apologize for the poor word choice. As I am not a citizen of either country, the immigration policies have a profound effect on immigrants like me ( like the executive orders targeting works visas and travel bans for legal immigrants in the US).As peace of mind due to immigration stability is one of the mains reason we are relocating, I just wanted to enquire if the conservative leaders in Canada advertise using executive orders that could target legal immigrants.By target I dont mean limiting the numbers but actually rescinding a legal immigrant visa overnight? I may sound paranoid, but many recent executive orders in US have affected a lot of families.Thats why wanted to research the political climate in Canada.
thanks for sharing your perspective.Research is all that I can do
That sucks, sorry to hear. But don’t waste time trying to fix people. I’m sure your child can find ten other kids who will be willing to play with them.
Yes we do have executive orders in Canada but the current liberal government is highly unlikely to hinder it - in fact they are looking to welcome more immigrants. They do need people to drive the economy so an immigration ban is not going to happen anytime soon.
Canadian politics is very interesting to say to the least, and cannot be directly compared to the American system. To get an idea, here are the platforms that the parties ran on last year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Canadian_federal_election#Platforms
I can understand the paranoia (I’m sure most of us here have through it). If you want to play it really safe, you can do a soft landing to cement your PR. Regardless the odds are very much in your favor.
My (subjective) opinion on this, others might have a different view:
Traditionally, Republicans have been in support of legal immigration and been against undocumented immigration. Democrats have been in support of giving legal status to undocumented immigrants and been somewhat indifferent to legal immigration (i.e. their proposed immigration reforms neither offered a solution the long GC lines for skilled immigrants, nor created any hurdles). In the last few years it felt as though the roles may have flipped and more hurdles have been created for visas and other procedures for legal immigration in the past few years. The hope is that new administration will remove those hurdles. But unless drastic immigration reforms, removing per country quotas etc is implemented, I don’t foresee GCs lines getting resolved quickly. Getting visas will also involve the usual uncertainty and hurdles unless major policy changes are implemented.
Don’t quote me on this since I am new here, but the general feeling is that both Liberals and Conservatives strongly support legal immigration, but in some cases the Conservatives tend to raise the bar for legal immigration more than Liberals do (e.g. raising PR --> Citizenship residency requirement to 4 years instead of 3, having stricter residency obligations for PRs etc.). I doubt any party would do a thing as drastic as rescinding immigration programs overnight; that will be political suicide.
W.r.t. racism or other antagonizing events, personally I have never been subjected to such an experience either in US or in Canada therefore I’m not the best person to comment on it. I’m sure it exists to varying degrees in both places, but the general feeling is that Canada is more welcoming of immigrants.
thanks for your response!
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I think you’re highlighting a serious issue that is prevalent in North America and that is the issue of bullying. I personally think that this is separate from racism, there are plenty of white kids who get bullied for being nerdy or non conforming with the group at large.
Unlike adults, Children don’t have a social filter so they are more likely to say things that may be hurtful or offensive. I found these statistics about bullying in Canada and it looks like 47% of parents here have reported instances of their children being bullied. Another recent article seems to confirm that it’s an ongoing problem.
So statistically speaking, the probability of your child experiencing some sort of bullying in Canada is almost the same as a coin toss being heads. There’s almost no practical way of shielding children from this unfortunately (there is the home schooling option but in my opinion lack of social interaction has even worse consequences).
Personally I think that the tendency for bullying in children comes from a broken or dysfunctional home environment and this corresponds more to the socio-economic status than it does with race. To minimize these interactions, I think as a parent you can research into schools that take bullying seriously and enroll your child in a place that does.
Moving onto the other topic of politicians and impact on immigrants, if we’re being honest and realistic Trump’s presidency had a net neutral to slight positive impact on legal immigrants. Indian Citizens weren’t impacted by the “muslim travel ban”, as for the executive order on work visas the reality is that all countries have shut down non essential immigration. This includes Canada which for the most part is advising even potential immigrants to not come to the country right now, an almost blanket ban on incoming international travel. I know that a lot of people are going to disagree with the slight positive impact, but due to the pandemic and otherwise curtailing some forms of immigration this year the Green Card queue for Indians has moved more substantially than it had in the past decade. But all of this is pointless as the Trump presidency is now over and there is going to be new policies in America. The best part about a democratic system is that it has inbuilt mechanisms to correct mistakes.
The last thought that I’d like to leave you with is to consider not consuming as much news media and to form your opinions based more on your experiences. The current media and social media ecosystem has the tendency to create echo chambers, where certain opinions are magnified and facts diminished. My child is much younger than yours and I spend a lot of time thinking very deeply about the prospect of raising him in an alien country (either USA or Canada or for that matter any country outside of India). I think it’s extremely important for us as parents to not pass down our political opinions on young children, if we teach them that the entire world is racist and out to get them, then that is what they will believe. This in essence has the effect of instilling victimhood complex, which I think is a pretty self defeating outlook in approaching the world.
I have to strongly disagree, this is true only if a visa and a job are all you care about. The way demonizing immigrants has been normalized, it’ll take years to repair the damage if someone is even interested in doing the work in the first place.
100 % agree on the news and social media eco system.
One has to be careful about what news/info to consume in today’s world.
The fact of the matter is , no matter where we live in todays world , be it US, Canada, India … timbaktoo we will experience bias, prejudice. This due to ignorance in all sections of society and all walks of life. IMHO racism is just one form of bullying .Bullying happens in every section of all societies, there are kids and grownups who will always be bullies or biased based on their experiences and upbringing.
The only way to handle it is be strong in your mind and beliefs. As parents all we can do is do our best to make our kids strong mentally and physically.
As far as politics , any political system that’s democratic, also has to deal with politician trying to appease a certain section of society, as winning is all about numbers. Every political party in every domocracy does it.
I am sure if there were 7 million legal immigrants waiting for their GC in US instead of 700000, and one political thought they would vote a certain way once they become citizens, there would be something on their election manifesto help the legal immigrants. There are many other forces (Employer Lobbies , Lawyer associations etc…) working against skilled immigrants in USA.
To make it worse skilled immigration is US is almost completely tied to your employer instead of your skills and capabilities (except EB1 NIW etc…) . Also the percentage of immigrant visas allocated towards skilled category is completely the reverse when it comes to US vs Canada. Appeasement politics also exisits in Candian politics and may harm the society as a whole , just like anywhere else in teh world . But then no political system is perfect , neither is democarcy . It eventually turns into a game of numbers .
I read this article recently and had very similar feelings about my respect for Canadian Immigration system.
I am happy living in a 4 Star Motel where they welcome me for what i am and give me the ability to pursue my dreams, vs a 5 Star motel where i am treated like a slave and feel helpless for factors beyond my control.